cos | Bathroom renovation ideas/warnings

Bathroom renovation ideas/warnings

I'm having the bathroom in my house redone soon.

One thing I worry about is the possibility of failing to specify or ask for things I may have always taken for granted, so they don't occur to me. I know what I'd like to gain, but I may not be aware of all the things I don't want to lose.

Like ten years ago when I got a car that didn't have map pockets on the backs of the seats, which I'd always depended on - I liked being able to store a few large atlases and laminated maps behind the passenger seat, and be able to easily reach for them when stopped at a light. It simply hadn't occurred to me that some cars may not have those. Or when I got some house windows replaced, and ended up with windows that don't have metal bars or little tabs near the bottom such that you can push them up from below to open. I'd simply taken for granted the ability to open a window next to my bed a crack while lying down, and it had never occurred to me that anyone might make a window you have to be standing up to open, so it wasn't something I asked about or looked for. I saw the windows before I agreed to have them, and just didn't notice that critical detail.

So, what am I not noticing about bathrooms? Any ideas?

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Make sure you have enough storage space (under sink, or in cabinets elsewhere) for toiletries and medicines.

That's something I am explicitly seeking to gain more of (and the designer knows it), but I don't think I could ever fail to think of storage space when thinking about redoing any kind of room.

A handy spot to stash your book when you get up from the toilet. (If you get a sink whose rim does not permit this, and there also isn't room for a small side table...)

Ease of access for toilet paper (then again, I have only seen a few hotel rooms that were profoundly stupid about this)

Ease of access for cleaning/replacing ceiling vent fan thingy (if the toilet blocks your stepladder...)

If you are replacing a tub, especially with an awesomer tub, make sure to cross reference the capacity of your water heater with your new tub size. I know someone who had an awesome tub, but who had to add kettlesfull of boiling water to take an adequately hot bath because of too small water heater proportionately.

I strongly prefer a close proximity of sink to toilet, and never thought much about it until my current bathroom quite literally has the sink in another room!

Which reminds me, we might want to redo this bathroom in a year or two. If you love the work that gets done for you, I'd love a recommendation to an awesome bathroom person!

Oooh, those are exactly the kinds of things I meant!

This bathroom is a bit too small for the sink and toilet to end up too far apart :) And the tub is being replaced with a larger non-tub shower, most likely.

BTW, this designer just did a kitchen and bathroom and dining room for my parents, who love his work, and that is why I picked him, so I'm happy to recommend him already based on seeing that project - but he's pricey.

The hot water thing is also an issue for fancy things like rain showers. Rain showers are nice, but they use a lot of water, so if you're contemplating one make sure you've either got an on-demand hot water heater or a large tank.

Note re: demand hot water heaters.

Many of these have a _minimum_ flow requirement. If you like turning the flow down in the shower so that you can have a long shower without wasting too much water, then watch for this issue.

Do you know what sort of faucet controls you like and what sort of shower controls? Some of the methods of switching from bath to shower are, IMO, kindof annoying. Do you want a shower head that has multiply spray settings? A hose so you can remove it and use it hand-held? Two shower heads so you can share with a friend? Do you rely on using the edge of the tub to store shampoos and soap and the like? Do you have an elevated shelf for such? Would you like one? Do you have or want overhead radiant heat? Assume ventilation fan will be included but in ours that is the same switch as the radiant heat, which is really annoying when it is summer and I DON'T want heat. Would you like dual controls on the lights so you can have only half-on sometimes? I would really like that in our bathroom. I installed some high wattage bulbs because often I want it bright but first thing in the morning it is TOO bright. Have you considered a dual-flush toilet? I installed a conversion kit in ours but as with most things something purpose-built will work better. Would you like a bidet? Have you considered a toilet-top sink? That saves water by letting you wash your hands with the water that is filling the tank. What sort of shower enclosure are you considering? Sliding door, swinging door, curtain? If curtain, would you like one of those bowed hotel-style curtain rods or is a straight one fine? I know I hate it when the shower curtain tries to stick to me, the curved rods limit that. When considering types of tile think of how they will be to clean.

That's everything off the top of my head. Not necessarily things you're not noticing but possibly a few options you haven't thought about. Or if you've already thought of them all then I got nothin' :)

Yeah, faucet controls and shower heads and things like that are all things I have strong opinions about and I pretty much start with them when talking about bathroom choices. Same for shelf space around the tub. These are more "foreground" sort of things for me, the ones my mind jumps to first, and the ones that vary most from bathroom to bathroom so you can never take them for granted. Light and heat controls, doors and curtains, etc., are all also "foreground" sort of considerations IMO. In researching bathrooms and asking people about them and talking to the designer, these are all the things that always come up. While there's definitely some choice paralysis, these aren't the sort of things I'm worried about just not noticing at all until they're gone/changed.

I hadn't heard of toilet-top sinks before. I'll ask about that.

You spent an awful lot of time on telling me how useless all my suggestion were. Next time I won't bother.

I dunno -- to me it sounds like he was agreeing with the things you suggested, in that they are so important to him he's already thought of them.

Plus he'd not even known about toilet top sinks and they sound neat enough he plans to ask.

This reaction is a surprise to me. It's not how I meant it, so I don't know what to say.

wild guess -- you were agreeing that these were important but noting that these things were foreground for you in order to help find more background things. I can see how it could be interpreted as 'none of the stuff you've said is in the category I am looking for'

A power outlet near the sink and the light switch inside the bathroom (instead of in the hall outside). And this doesn't count as a critical detail, but possibly radiant heat under the tiles.

Oh, and a fan that actually vents to the outside rather than just circulating the air through a filter.

I've got the light switch inside now, but you can't live in New England and not be aware of the prevalence of outside-the-bathroom light switches :) That would be just the sort of thing I'm asking about, for someone moving here from somewhere else where they just don't do that.

Heat under the tiles is something I'll likely get, but you're right, it's not a "I might not notice it because I took it for granted" kind of thing.

Good ventilation is something I trust this designer to get right, but I don't know enough to have opinions on the details. I just told him I prioritize low maintenance (so, as little grouting as possible, and effective ventilation, among other things, really matter).

we had to put an outside switch in when we renovated the 2nd floor -- it was the only place that the combination of code, door swing, and shower doors permitted it to be.

The day they finished sealing up the walls I instantly regretted not specifying sound insulation between the bathroom and the adjacent bedrooms. I still regret it years later.

If you're in a multifamily, code (in S'ville) specifies sound insulation in the ceiling between apts, but still says nothing about within an apartment.

If you're opening up any walls, make sure you put in enough outlets, not only in the bathroom, but take advantage of the open walls to add outlets to all the rooms that share walls you have open. Then before you close them, have them stuff those suckers with all the sound insulation you can.

Sound insulation is fairly good now but is just the sort of thing I might've forgotten about. Cool.

As for outlets ... the previous owners were electricians (well, the dad and the daughter, not the mom), and they put in lots of outlets. Almost every room has outlets on at least two different circuits.

While some of these are more likely if you are a large person in a small space, or if you are blind without your glasses, they are all from experience:

Can you reach your towel without getting out of the tub/shower.
Can you reach the TP without getting up from the toilet.
Is there enough space on the sink counter for things you like to put there, such as drinking glass, soap dish, razor, etc.
Are there enough shelves and soap holders inside the shower. Are they in the flow of water when you turn the shower on or will they stay dry. Do the built in soap dishes drain.
Does the built in toothbrush holder hold a modern shaped toothbrush (which have huge handles).
When you are standing at the sink looking in the mirror, is the ceiling light behind you such that you are backlit and can't see your own face and hair.
Do you hit your head on the shower curtain bar or top bar of the sliding doors.
If you bend down in the shower, what will you hit your head on when you straighten up.
If you lower your face into the sink, what will you hit your head on when you straighten up.
When you sit down on the toilet, what do you hit the back of your head on.
Is the tub big enough to sit down in without your knees bent.
How deep does the tub fill before it gets to the emergency drain.
Can you get at the pipes when they need to be maintained, without harming your walls, tile, etc. NO REALLY.
Where will steam condense, and can it be bleached easily. (Also, what is your ceiling and non-tile wall made of and what is it painted with.)
Do you have to step weirdly over or around other fixtures (sink, toilet) to get into the shower. Are the faucets in the way as you get into the shower.
If glass shower doors, is there a good way to grab them from both sides to open and close them from either inside or outside.
Do you have enough room near the toilet to disrobe without things from your belt being knocked off and landing in suboptimal places.
Are there any weird little nooks or gaps between fixtures and the wall that will be difficult to clean.

This is a great list.

PS - many of our generation find out the hard way that old houses tend to have huge piles of old used razor blades inside the bathroom walls. Keep your mitts out of where you can't see during the reno.

That's just *weird*! But I'm leaving the "reaching inside walls" part to the contractors :)

I had that happen once too, so it's not just a thing that happens in Boston. The only things I thought of that I haven't seen mentioned here are:

1. If you're getting a glass shower door, is it easy to clean glass or will it require regular squeegeeing?

2. Are you used to sitting on the edge of the tub to do something in the bathroom? If so, don't get a sliding glass shower door.

Oh, and one more. I had no idea they even MADE bathroom sinks without an overflow drain, so I didn't notice this "feature" in our new house. Now I live in paranoia.

That sounds like you've had very uncomfortable bathroom experiences to have created such a list. I hope that's not all your current bathroom situation!

that's... quite a list to have had from experience. (although I do periodically hit my head on the medicine cabinet if I leave it open.)

Oh! Possibly not of interest to

cos but an awesome thing for folks who like to do their hair is to have the vanity mirrors open toward one another, with a mirror between, like a triptych. That's how I look at the back of my head.

Huh. I think one of my housemates would find that valuable, but I also don't think the room is large enough to allow for that flexbility; not enough wall space. But maybe...

My qpartmwnt has been godawful of late, but if you come by I can show you the bathroom. When the vanity takes up a whole wall people will often just mirror the sides by the sink; mine is medicine cabinets above the sink and toilet with mirror backed shelf between.

I was just thinking of making sure to notice the mirrors next time I'm there. It has been so long since I last visited that I remember nothing of the bathroom. But I might get to look at it soon - see my email response and write back :)

done.
basically i have two mirrored medicine cabinets with a mirror backed shelf between them, above the toilet and sink on the long wall of the bathroom, which is the same length as the bathtub wall.

"Can you reach the TP without getting up from the toilet."

I was going to mention the reach from the toilet to the TP, too. My parents retired to an awesome new(-to-them) house, and the guest bathroom's TP dispenser is on the same wall as the toilet, so I have to contort slightly to reach it, and prefer to just have a roll on the sink instead. I'd never thought about that placement before.

If you like chrome baskety things in the shower or above the sink, make sure they're chromed brass (not steel) which will never rust (I had to replace mine after having the bathroom redone).

Can very short people and very tall people see themselves in the mirror (4'10-6'6)?

LED lights! Far more efficient when you're replacing things anyway.

Yes, about the tall/short. There's more than one place where I can't see myself in the above-sink mirror.

(it's also surprising how extremely odd it feels when there is no above-sink mirror. friend's hall bathroom has none)

We just finished massive reno that included adding an entirely bathroom...

heat in bathroom - we have a toe kick heater to save wall space from a radiator
towel bars for bathtowels
hand-towel ring/bar
swing of doors -- can you easily get in/out of shower, bathroom in general? -- ours is a little suboptimal with placement of vanity
where are the light switches?
pipes do better if they're not run up an outside wall
height of hardware on shower doors
height of shower head
height of shower faucet
depth of counters/height of counter
outlet by sink for electric razor etc
access for pipes in case of repair
will your hands fit inside stuff so can you actually reach in and turn off the water
fan noise -- get the strongest exhaust fan you can stand as it will make your bathroom last longer
lights, lights, lights!
TP holder on the right or left?
cast iron tubs are a bitch to move, but can be sanded and reglazed if they start to rust. Steel, fiberglass, not so much. On the other hand, cast iron tubs take longer to warm up and suck heat out of the water much faster
tile design if you're doing something interesting -- standard white tiles in smaller sizes (6x6 and 8x8) are just not available anymore
shower niche storage is really nice (look up latticrete for example)
soap holder in shower
if >1 in the shower at a time, think about where the water will go when the door opens
tankless on demand HW heater is da bomb -- never run out of HW as long as you have gas and electric!
vapor barrier behind walls/ceiling -- keeps humidty from getting to studs/attic
do you want a waterproof (plastic membrane behind flooring) floor
will the floor need to reinforced to support tub + water + person (its about 600lbs total!)
glossy tile on the floor looks nice, but its slippery on wet feet
countertop materials
cabinet door swings
medicine cabinet door swing
insulation in the outside walls!

once you're doing plumbing for 1 bathroom, incremental cost to run stubs for another bathroom (even if you don't finish it at the time) is much less than having to run new plumbing if you decide to finish it later -- we have stubs for a master bath hidden in the floor/walls. It also adds significant resale value to say "If you want a bathroom in location X, all you have to do is open up floor, walls, ceiling and install fixtures"

do you want a jetted tub? the good ones take up a lot of space, use a lot of water and are very heavy. The ones that fit inside a standard tub footprint don't work very well.

how wide/long/deep do you want the tub?

make sure to use either blueboard & skimcoat or mold-resistant drywall and mud with with mildew-killer added. Blueboard is inherently moisture resistant and plaster will suck the moisture up too fast to let mildew grow very well

1) There is no such thing as too many safeguards against mildew.

2) One of the safeguards against mildew is an exhaust fan. I often forget to turn mine on and then have to step out of the shower to flip the switch when I remember. I wish the switch were closer to the shower.

3) I also wish there were outlets near the shower. I sometimes want to do things like cut my hair in the shower (without the water running) and then vacuum it up. I wish I didn't need such long extension cords for the clipper and the vacuum.

I have found that either a timer switch or a motion detector is a must-have for the vent fan.

Hmm. I have lots of "extra" ideas, but coming up with "what not to forget" is harder. Ideas:

* A GFCI outlet behind/next to the toilet is great while you have walls open, because you can install a Washlet later (if you don't do it now).
* Make sure there is enough space between the back of the toilet and the wall so that you can clean/paint/wallpaper behind the toilet.
* Access to toilet paper has been mentioned. Also make sure (this can be solved with furniture) that _spare_ paper is accessible too.
* Make sure you have sufficient power on your countertop. Or maybe inside your medicine cabinet?
* Does all your stuff fit in the medicine cabinet?
* Are there sufficient mirrors for your purposes?
* Is there sufficient lighting for your purposes?

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