signaling in rotaries

[cos]

I want to start a trend.

Several years ago I heard that in some places in Europe, people signal in rotaries - err, "traffic circles", for readers outside of New England. When they're in the rotary going around, they signal pointing into the circle. When they pass the last exit before the one they want to take - IOW, when they plan to take the next exit out of the rotary - they signal out from the circle. That way, people know which cars are trying to go around and which cars are trying to get out where.

As soon as I heard it, I thought it made a lot of sense, and started doing it. I hope that if people see me, some of them might like the idea and start doing the same thing. I've been signaling in rotaries for a few years, and I have no idea if anyone else has been swayed. I don't recall seeing any other cars doing it. But maybe if they saw it happen more often, if more of us did it, it might catch on.

Anyone wanna try?

Comments

[solipsistnation.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I do that too, especially on Route 2...

[somehedgehog.livejournal.com]

If I remember correctly from my driving test (which was not all that long ago), you are in fact required to signal out when exiting a rotary. Never heard of the signaling in thing though. That could create a problem in multi-lane rotaries, because people might think you were transferring into the center lane (though I don't know why you'd want to do that). I wonder how the Europeans handle it?

[hawkegirl.livejournal.com]

Yup, it is. And I swear profusely at people who don't do it. :>

[greyhame.livejournal.com]

My understanding of the traffic laws in the US--or at least in MA--is that you're supposed to signal to exit the rotary (almost no one does), and for two-lane rotaries, to move between the inside and outside lanes, but that you don't signal while on the rotary because it's considered to be equivalent to travelling in a straight line. The rotary counts as the "road" you're currently on, and even if you're on a road that curves, you don't signal to stay on the same road. I don't think you're supposed to signal to merge into the rotary, because there's generally no other place for you to go when you're waiting at a rotary inlet.
So, I don't signal left while going around the rotary, and I do signal right when exiting the rotary, because if everyone signalled properlly to exit the rotary, signalling left to stay on it would be superfluous and silly.

[farwing.livejournal.com]

Heh...first try getting people to use their turn signals when they change lanes. Stupid *&^%$. Sorry...I don't even drive, but there are a lot of criminally stupid people on the roads.

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

Mmm. I certainly try to signal when leaving a rotary - but I can never figure out how to handle it when there are two possible directions I could be leaving on - one which is more 'left' than the other, and one which appears to be 'forward'.

And, I think the signalling toward the rotary would confuse people when there are multiple lanes in the rotary... *ponders*

[safetybitch.livejournal.com]

You've been to Seattle, right? I can only think of one or two large traffic circles, of the kind you mean, but the smaller neighbourhoods are riddles with circles in almost every intersection. The idea is that traffic always goes to the right, and signals, and therefore goes slowly through residential areas.

The reality is that people go whatever direction they find more convenient, at whatever speed they feel like, and we are constantly responding to MVAs in these areas. Meanwhile, though they don't slow down normal traffic, since small cars can fit around the circles, it is impossible for something like an ambulance to make a real turn... and the fire engines are forced to drive straight over the circles. Which becomes somewhat harder when people helpfully plant trees and the like in those circles.

This rant brought to you by the uncontrollable laughter caused by the thought of trying to convince Seattle drivers to signal.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_nicolai_/]

The rules are actually (in the UK), approximately:
For turning, overall left: signal left when entering, in, and exiting roundabout.
For going straightish on: signal left just after passing the exit before the one you are taking.
For tuning, overall, right: signal right when entering and in the roundabout, signal left just after passing the exit before the one you are taking.
This is mandatory signalling in all roundabouts big enough to have something in the centre (as opposed to a mini-roundabout, which has nothing in the centre except paint and perhaps a small hump in the road).
It makes perfect sense.

And Massachusetts drivers really don't know how to handle roundabouts.

[yehoshua.livejournal.com]

Just getting people to signal out of the rotaries would be a huge step in the right direction. It would probably just confuse things in some places like smaller rotaries where one enters and leaves within a few dozen feet.

Better still would be getting the police to enforce the "yield to traffic in rotary" law. More problematic than not knowing if the guy already in the rotary is about to leave is not knowing if the guy at the entrance to my left is about to jackrabbit out in 2nd gear and straight into my left knee.

[beowabbit]

Better still would be getting the police to enforce the "yield to traffic in rotary" law.

Yeah! I recently had people throw stuff at me out of their car because I did not yield to them when they were entering a rotary and I was in it. I had the right of way, I expected them to pause before entering (which they did, enough not to hit me anyway), but they immediately honked at me and pulled up alongside me when we both got out of the rotary and threw the ice from a soda at my car. Made me wish I were an undercover cop.

[yehoshua.livejournal.com]

Weird. I just sort of assume that having stuff thrown at me happens because I'm on a bike, and the cagers know I'm unlikely to do real damage to them and their 2-ton penis compensators unless they're slow hitting the gas. I'm not sure if it heartens me or not to hear you've had the same experience in (I assume) a car.

The cops don't care about such things, BTW. Hitting a pedestrian with a cup of ice is assault. Hitting a biker with the same ice is good clean fun, and kids will be kids, and geez, what do I want them to do, anyway, pull the little scamps over? OTOH, catching thrown ice barehanded and throwing it back is a felony, at least according to one cop I've had run-ins with in Belmont.

Not that I'm angry or anything.

[sauergeek.livejournal.com]

From what I've heard, up until about 20 years ago, MA had the opposite rule -- rotary traffic must yield to traffic entering. This probably led to fast and amazingly dense tie-ups, so the law got changed. Whether people actually pay attention to the change is still up for debate.

[cos]

As I recall, the law was simply that rotaries are intersections and follow all the rules for intersections. So the car on the right has right of way. Eventually they realized that was stupid and made an exception for rotaries.

[huaman.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure actually using a turn signal in MA is wise to begin with, though. For one thing, it would mean that other drivers would know where you *think* you're going, and be able to maneuver to intercept you, and whatnot. It would be the equivalent of telegraphing your upcoming punch in a sparring match.

[cos]

You have a point, but it's more for other people's benefit that I like to signal.

Also, I think a lot of Boston drivers aren't actually out to prevent other people from getting somewhere first, despite the stereotype - what they're actually aggressive about is promoting traffic flow, and quickly getting around obstacles to that traffic flow if someone else doesn't do the right thing quickly. If they see someone hesitate they may easily decide that person is an obstacle and try to pass, but if they see someone slow and signal, they may get the (correct) impression that the person is about to turn and allowing that will let them get where they're going faster than not allowing it.

[entirelysonja.livejournal.com]

I always signal when exiting a traffic circle, and when changing lanes within a traffic circle.

I don't otherwise signal while in the circle.

[geminigirl]

Absolutely. And we've got plenty of traffic circles here. Not when entering into one though, because you're not really turning, you're following the curve of the road you're currently on.

[obra.livejournal.com]

I've done that since I started driving.

[adaptively.livejournal.com]

i usually hand-signal when biking alongside the rotary in wakefield...but that's mostly to prevent instantaneous death. it'd be very, very nice to know where people plan on going, so that i could get out of their paths.

[scromp.livejournal.com]

We have approximately two traffic circles here, and their mere existance is a source of constant terror for old ladies far and wide. While some people have grasped the notion that you are intended to drive in a circular fashion when encountering these constructs, more often than not they will simply drive straight through them, over the grass in the middle, and out the other side.

Mixing in turn signals sounds like a recipe for doom.

[cos]

In my experience, nobody uses turn signals in Kentucky anyway. At all. It was extreme enough to susprise me even though I come from Boston. So maybe you're right, using turn signals in Kentucky may just confuse people.

Kind of like road markings in Kenya. If they drew a line down the middle of the road, it might cause more accidents than it'd prevent :)

[benndragon.livejournal.com]

I generally signal turning out of rotaries, especially at the Concord Rotary (on route 2). Mainly because I'm in the left lane going at about 40, and the last thing I want is colliding with someone who decided not to turn onto route 2 from the right lane. I'll note that I generally signal, coming from a place where this is considered common curtesy and not doing it might result in someone trying to take your head off with a shotgun from a pickup truck with the confederate flag in the cab (if I may stereotype with reckless abandon). It also makes me feel no guilt whatsoever about cutting off any asshole who won't let me in after I signal. . .

um. too late?

[macthud]

You can join a trend, but it's too late to start it... I've no idea who can be considered to have started it, but it has to have been in 1984 (me) or sooner....

I've been signaling around Rotary travel since I started driving -- there was a large one, on Route 3A in Hingham, fairly near my house, and I travelled through it frequently.

As others have said, the key signals are when merging (which includes entering the rotary), when changing lanes (if there are multiples in the rotary), and when exiting, just as with any road with on- and off-ramps -- the rotary is just like a very small highway, on a long curve...

But hey -- the more the merrier!

[catness.livejournal.com]

I signal in rotaries about as often as I signal regularly; about 90% of the time, often depending on whether or not my actions are going to affect anyone around me. (I'll skip it if I'm alone, for instance.) The problem with signalling in rotaries in Massachusetts is that most rotaries are too small to make the signal useful, like they would be in the roundabouts that Nicolai describes. Also, as huaman said, telegraphing your intentions on the roads around here is tantamount to suicide. ;)

[mizarchivist]

*nod* I understand about not wanting to give information to the enemy.

You've been in Eastern Mass too dang long.

[pseydtonne.livejournal.com]

I grew up in upstate New York, where you actually have to learn a lot of things before you pass the driving test. It still blew my mind to see a diagram of The Traffic Circle, a prominent five-way rotary in Johnson City (the village I lived in my senior year of college). (Yes, that's the Village of Johnson City.) It explained that you get into the innermost lane upon entering a rotary if you will be getting off more than 180 degrees from your entry, then signal and move right as you get closer to your exit. See this link from Calgary or this nicer PDF for color versions.

I can't help but boggle that you didn't know this stuff. Then again, you're from here. The rest of us weren't taught to drive at gunpoint. When you have wide roads and clearly painted lanes, you see these rules as an important part of getting the responsibilities of adulthood. Then again, rotaries are theoretical in most of America -- you hear about them, maybe you deal with one giant one every so often. So you learn them the way you learn about parallel parking without power steering. Massachusetts also doesn't have the same of cops the rest of America has, so who's going to enforce the rules.

So I say this to all of you in our fair metro Boston land: SIGNAL! GET IT? You really OUGHT to TELEGRAPH your moves because

letting other people in two-ton vehicles know what your two tons will be doing is proven to prevent accidents.

Dang, y'all. You've successfully blown my mind that you thought this was a catchy new idea instead of fact.

-You are leaving Metro Parkways, Dante

nobody knows me, but...

[the-wanderer27.livejournal.com]

I stumbled upon this journal via a link to your name from Leah's journal. I grew up in Acton, MA, and the concord rotary was an everyday thing for me. One day, I was going around the rotary from the acton side of rte 2 to that little road just past rte 2 east. I was on the outside lane. someone decides to turn onto Rte 2 East from the inside lane WITHOUT signaling, and, inevitably, she hits me. Apparently, she thought it was my fault for being in the outside lane and not turning onto rte 2, not hers for turning from a non-turn-lane. (i dont care how many people think it IS a turn lane, its NOT). If she had been Euro-signaling, I still wouldnt have known when she was going to turn. If she had signaled for a right turn, I would have assumed she was switching lanes. I think people should treat rotaries like any other stretch of road, signal to change lanes, signal to get off, only turn from the outside lane (or marked turn lanes), and always always always PAY ATTENTION.

Jonah