what does it mean?

[cos]

Please comment on this post before you read anyone else's comments.

This weekend, I saw a bumper sticker that said,
Straight, White, English-Speaking
Proud American
For a moment, I was offended ... then I started thinking of several different possible intentions, meanings, and contexts for this slogan. After a bit of confusion, I settled on curiosity. What does it mean? What did the people who sold it intend for it to convey, and what did the person who put it on their car intend to say by it? I can think of several different possibilities or nuances, and maybe there are more.

So tell me, what do you read in this bumper sticker slogan? And if, like me, you see several possibilities, which one came first, before you thought about it?

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Wow this just confirms my thoughts on "diversity."
We want diversity as long as who you are, or what you think is acceptable to me.
If what you believe or who you are is offensive, or different, or unacceptable then you are (fill in the blank)
So "gay Pride" is O K, but Straight Pride is not.
You all need to think about what "diversity" means.
Acceptance.

[ayalanya.livejournal.com]

hmm...i thought the sticker was amusing, once my initial reaction of "huh?" was over. reason being, my mom has this button that says "i'm straight but not narrow". i have issues with things like that, because it sounds like those people who feel the need to point out their straightness while adamantly pointing out their ability to "tolerate" or "accept" those of us who aren't. in a perfect world, i would imagine that differences would be celebrated as variety but completely ignored as things that stick out and need to be "tolerated"

this sticker, to me, is thumbing its nose at that, saying "i am this, and i don't really feel the need to envelope you all in my tolerant arms by saying that i am this but i don't mind if you're not".

[soulchanger.livejournal.com]

Word.

[cos]

Aww, I wish you'd commented on the post. Looks like you already read other people's comments, but if you can still remember what you thought before you saw any of them, I'd love to know.

[soulchanger.livejournal.com]

I did. http://www.livejournal.com/users/cos/15712.html?thread=125536#t125536 Observe how I commented on your post before I commented on the replies.

Those actually were my first thoughts. I am a conservative and as such am attuned to the kind of viewpoint that would buy such a sticker. The fact that 70 people decided that this person was bigoted and/or a jerk without any evidence except this sticker makes me sick because it means that they have prejudices against the majority of Americans proclaiming thier identity.

Eminem proclaims in his music that he is white and yet no one thinks that this makes him racist. He even announces that the fact that he is white has made him more popular, and has made white kids listen to rap. I don't hear black people objecting to this. I doubt most of the people who posted comments about how bigoted this sticker owner was listen to "black" music, though, so there's no way they could know that. It's easy for naive, sheltered PC liberals to proclaim the inferiority of straight white English-speaking proud Americans and the fact that soon those people will be extinct, but I often notice that most liberals are totally out of touch with any society, culture, or class other than their own. Being PC comes from a fear of diversity. It comes from a fear that others will discover your secret prejudices.

Look at the arguments here. It is a farce. There are people claiming that there's no reason to display the fact that you are white/straight/etc. That people are assholes for displaying it. That no one wants to know. How many times have I heard this argument as a means of discriminating against gays? How many times have I heard it said that people can be gay "on their own time" as long as they keep it out of the public eye? What about "Don't ask, don't tell?" This is about telling people who you are. It's about FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION. I don't mean to get angry here, but you have caused people to illustrate exactly why I am so frustrated with the left in this country all the time.

So anyway, the point was that yes, my first response was to assume that this was an answer to the multitudes of alternative whatever stickers.

prejudices and reactions in reflection

[cos]

Oh, you're right! I missed the fact that there was a second page of comments when I first looked to see if you'd posted. This is the first time I ever remember being way behind on reading my own journal :)

Those actually were my first thoughts. I am a conservative and as such am attuned to the kind of viewpoint that would buy such a sticker. The fact that 70 people decided that this person was bigoted and/or a jerk without any evidence except this sticker makes me sick because it means that they have prejudices against the majority of Americans proclaiming thier identity.

Having now read your first thoughts, I think that was a very useful addition to this discussion. However, surprised though you may be by it, you're far from the only conservative who reads my journal. The fact that you say that "70 people decided [etc.]" shows that you haven't actually read most of the comments here, only skimmed a few that seemed representative to you, and that really touched a sore spot for you and led you to jumping to conclusions about everyone. Which, in itself, actually serves to illustrate one possibility of what may be behind that bumper sticker - and what may be behind some of the commenters that so annoyed you. Their comments, and this comment of yours, feel like flip sides of the same coin, though with varying degrees of self-awareness about it.

Which, once again, makes your comments a very useful addition to this discussion.

But, I do recommend you go back and read more of the comments. Also, aelisdeliria's spinoff post that spurred on some more discussion.

Re: prejudices and reactions in reflection

[soulchanger.livejournal.com]

Actually, I read all of the comments, when the comment count was 80. Most of them were variations of "he's bigoted," "he's an asshole," and "who cares." Maybe there were more than ten that varied, but 70 seemed like a good estimate without actually counting - which I really don't have time for.

Re: prejudices and reactions in reflection

[cos]

Since your post interests me, I took the time to count. I went through those first 80 comments (which, it turns out, covers all but one of the people who commented) and tried to judge each one in terms of your claim above, that I was initially reacting to here:
70 people decided that this person was bigoted and/or a jerk without any evidence except this sticker

First of all, when people make assumptions about what this sticker means, they're not doing it purely from what the sticker says and nothing else. Their assumptions come from putting the sticker in a cultural context, which involves a lot of other information. Your reaction to the sticker also comes from putting it in a cultural context, as you described in your first comment. So even if someone does jump to the wrong conclusion, there's more going into that conclusion than you imply. However, I want to simplify this and wave all that aside - let's forget about context for a moment, and just look at the comments and whether or not they jump to the kind of conclusion you saw in them.
[continued]

prejudices and reactions in reflection prejudices and reactions in reflection

[cos]

recap: 70 people decided that this person was bigoted and/or a jerk without any evidence except this sticker.
[adjusting for the fact that there were only 54 people, I read "70" to mean "all but a very few of those who commented"]

There were 54 people (including anonymous commenters, counting IPs) commenting. Of these, 14 posted comments that do fit your description. 24 posted comments that do not, in any way or interpretation, indicate that they made the assumption you ascribe to them. There were 5 who commented a dual reaction, perhaps similar to mine, where they thought of an interpretation that fits your claim, but then also thought of other interpretations, and ended up not making the assumption. The last 11 were people who I thought don't fit your claim, but whose comments are open to some interpretation - if you were feeling particularly defensive and expecting everyone to automatically assume the guy is an asshole, you might have interpreted some of these 11 as being in that category.

A good example of one of these is the third comment, from mir_nyc:

First idea: first line from a personal ad
Second idea: anti-P.C. person with obnoxious and kinda dumb bumper sticker.

Does this comment mean that she "decided that this person was bigoted and/or a jerk"? To me, it's pretty clear that it does not. You yourself would agree that the person sporting this sticker is probably anti-P.C., and that's the only statement she made about the person. She had two interpretations of the sticker, and the first one was entirely neutral. Her second interpretation was that the sticker is "obnoxious" and "dumb", but that's her opinion of the sticker - she's not calling the guy a bigot. You may say that if she thinks the sticker is obnoxious (which, note, was one of two interpretations she gave), she must think someone displaying an obnoxious sticker is a jerk. That's not necessarily true - she didn't say the person displaying it believes it to be obnoxious, only that she does. She left open the possibility that she has a different opinion of the sticker than the person whose car it was on.

So, that's an illustration of the kinds of comments I put in that category of 11 "open to interpretation" - I really don't think they display the assumptions you describe, but I think it possible that when you read these comments, you thought they did.

What's most interesting to me is that however you interpreted those comments, there were still a significant number of commenters who cannot be interpreted to have the meaning that bothered you. In my count, in fact, 14 out of 54 match your complaint, while 40 out of 45 do not. Your perception may have gone as far as seeing 29 out of 54 (just over half) of these people as matching your complaint, but if so, that indicates to me that you had an unwarranted defensive reaction to a lot of comments and jumped to conclusions about what they meant, in the same way that you say they jumped to conclusions about the sticker-bearer. If, on the other hand, you didn't interpret those comments this way, it means that you saw a set of comments by 54 people, only 14 of whom were jumping to the conclusion that bothers you, and perceived it as 70 out of 80. Why?

Several people commented that part, or all, of their negative reaction to this sticker, is that it seems very defensive to them. You've illustrated the point of view of someone who identifies with, and would consider displaying, such a sticker - and your point of view does sound defensive.

I made this post to discover, not to exhort. I noticed myself examining my own reactions and assumptions when I saw the sticker, and I wanted to give other people an opportunity to do so, to see each other's assumptions, and learn from each other. I feel that I (and perhaps others) have learned something from your comments, but that you haven't taken advantage of the opportunity to learn from them, because you're trapped in defensive reaction. The reason I took the time to count was to prod you, hopefully, into looking again and actually reading some comments that I think you dismissed the first time, and try to think about what they're actually saying.

Re: prejudices and reactions in reflectionprejudices and reactions in reflection

[soulchanger.livejournal.com]

"A good example of one of these is the third comment, from mir_nyc:
First idea: first line from a personal ad
Second idea: anti-P.C. person with obnoxious and kinda dumb bumper sticker.
Does this comment mean that she "decided that this person was bigoted and/or a jerk"? To me, it's pretty clear that it does not."

I would count having an obnoxious and dumb bumper sticker as an example of jerky behavior, yes.


Now let me clarify that I looked at the comment count and saw the number 80 at the time that I made my post. This number includes people who posted two or three times, and comments you made. I clearly should have adjusted downward for that fact.

It is indeed interesting that I was more likely to notice comments that bothered me than comments that didn't bother me. I think you will find if you stop trying to spin everything that it is a fundamental trait of human nature that we are more likely to notice and recall things that we consider to be disagreeable and we are generally likely to overestimate these things.


"The fact that you say that "70 people decided [etc.]" shows that you haven't actually read most of the comments here, only skimmed a few that seemed representative to you, and that really touched a sore spot for you and led you to jumping to conclusions about everyone."

Clearly this is not the case. The fact that I said that did not show that I had not actually read most of the comments here. That was an obnoxious and annoying thing of you to say.

Now why don't we get back to the point of this discussion.

I will accept your low number of 14. The fact that 14 people decided that this person was bigoted and/or a jerk without any evidence except this sticker makes me sick because it means that they have prejudices against the majority of Americans proclaiming thier identity.

Eminem proclaims in his music that he is white and yet no one thinks that this makes him racist. He even announces that the fact that he is white has made him more popular, and has made white kids listen to rap. I don't hear black people objecting to this. I doubt most of the people who posted comments about how bigoted this sticker owner was listen to "black" music, though, so there's no way they could know that. It's easy for naive, sheltered PC liberals to proclaim the inferiority of straight white English-speaking proud Americans and the fact that soon those people will be extinct, but I often notice that most liberals are totally out of touch with any society, culture, or class other than their own. Being PC comes from a fear of diversity. It comes from a fear that others will discover your secret prejudices.

Look at the arguments here. It is a farce. There are people claiming that there's no reason to display the fact that you are white/straight/etc. That people are assholes for displaying it. That no one wants to know. How many times have I heard this argument as a means of discriminating against gays? How many times have I heard it said that people can be gay "on their own time" as long as they keep it out of the public eye? What about "Don't ask, don't tell?" This is about telling people who you are. It's about FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION. I don't mean to get angry here, but you have caused people to illustrate exactly why I am so frustrated with the left in this country all the time.

Re: prejudices and reactions in reflectionprejudices and reactions in reflection

[cos]

I'm disappointed that you seem to continue to treat this as an argument where you need to win, and other people are trying to "spin". I think you've passed up a good opportunity to learn something, both about yourself and about other people, because you prefer to wallow in outrage. So I'm stepping out of this thread now.

Re: prejudices and reactions in reflectionprejudices and reactions in reflection

[soulchanger.livejournal.com]

"because you prefer to wallow in outrage."

Far be it from me to deny others their learning experiences. Are you aware that when you state as fact your opinion about what others are thinking you are being an obnoxious jerk? Did you know that no one will respond well to such provocation? Because I think that you can really learn from this thread that if you start out by telling other people what they are thinking you put them on the defensive and they are less likely to listen to what you are saying and more likely to take offense.

Since you were ignorant of that fact, however, I am going to now stop being outraged by your rudeness and lack of etiquette and open up my mind to the lesson here. So tell me - what is it that I can learn about myself from my reaction to the responses to this bumper sticker?